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On premature reports of the church’s suicide

On premature reports of the church’s suicide

Bishop Dan Edwards of Nevada responds to a recent blog post about the suicide of mainline churches that has been making the rounds.

Bishop Dan’s Blog:

My real problem is not really with Hedges’ suggestion that “the liberal church,” by which he means mainline denominations, have committed suicide by being too conservative. I object to his underlying premise. It is that we are fatally flawed by the very fact that we are the Church. He cites Paul Tillich to the effect that all institutions, including the Church, are inherently demonic, and Reinhold Niebuhr who claimed that churches were inherently morally weak while individuals alone have the spine to be moral. Hedges thereby implies that the Church should commit suicide in order to set us each free to live the moral and meaningful lives we would live if we were solitary individuals on desert islands. If I read him wrong I apologize, but if that is not what he is saying, I assure you plenty of people in the Church are.

I have spent long stretches in solitude wrestling with my inner demons. I was quite disappointed to discover that I am every bit as spiritually muddled on my own as in a group. Christianity has known that for a long time. See, The Lives Of The Desert Fathers. The heroic individual I thought I was (because Tillich and Niebuhr told me I was) was invented by Soren Kierkegaard as a philosophical construct in the 19th Century before he died on a Copenhagen street refusing the sacraments of the Church he did not deem moral enough to comfort him. 20thCentury thinkers from Tillich and Niebuhr to Neil Diamond extolled that solitary man.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtwg1BwKek

The problem is: that solitary man does not exist. We do not give birth to ourselves, manufacture our own DNA, speak only to ourselves in our own language, drive on roads we have made, read books we have written. We live in the human milieu. Other people influence us as we influence them. Plato defined “being” as the power to influence others and the capacity to be influenced by them. To separate ourselves from community would in Plato’s’ terms be to destroy our very being. That would be suicide.

We make meaning in relationship. Ubuntu theology says so. See, Reconciliation: The Ubuntu Theology of Desmond Tutu. http://www.amazon.com/Reconciliation-Ubuntu-Theology-Desmond-Tutu/dp/0829818332/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454010623&sr=8-1&keywords=ubuntu+theology Object-relations psychoanalysis and systems psychology say so. Aristotle said so. “Man is a political animal.” Politics.John Donne said so. “No man is an island.” In Democracy In America, Alexis de Tocqueville said our social and political interactions were necessary in order for us to live well and grow into better people. The New Testament says so, particularly in Paul’s metaphor of The Body of Christ.

 

 

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Kurt Hill

"What is needed is more praise type music, Media screens too, is a must and almost none has them.”"--Ted Martin

You've got to be kidding, Ted! You can get that kind of dreck from the Pentecostals!

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Ted Thomas Martin

"My real problem is not really with Hedges’ suggestion that “the liberal church,” by which he means mainline denominations, have committed suicide by being too conservative. " ...You lost me after your first sentence. It must be a play on words I guess. Mainline denominations, have committed suicide by being too LIBERAL. Even as am NOT one of them, conservative churches are the only ones growing. It does seem, churches can be so liberal as to render them unnecessary, why have them at all? Just go out and do your thing. It does come down to excuses, excuses, excuses...even as I offer mine; the Episcopal church is still too traditional, stilted and stuffy in the order of service. What is needed is more praise type music, Media screens too, is a must and almost none has them.

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JC Fisher

"the Episcopal church is still too traditional, stilted and stuffy in the order of service. What is needed is more praise type music, Media screens too, is a must and almost none has them."

Way too liberal for my calling, Ted...

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