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Bishop Packard in the paddy wagon talking Occupy v. Trinity

Bishop Packard in the paddy wagon talking Occupy v. Trinity

Here is a new video of Bishop George Packard in the paddy wagon speaking with other Occupy Wall Street protestors who were arrested after scaling a fence and entering Trinity Wall Street’s property at Duarte Square.


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tgflux

"You have it, we need it, give it to us." From where does such an expectation of entitlement come?

Just possibly from the expectation that the ***Christians*** that Occupiers are requesting from will live up to the Gospel they profess?

Jesus Christ "entitled" a fallen humanity. His Great Commandment to his followers was that we would go and do likewise.

Does the world Christ died to save have whiners? Do they smell? Are they insufferably arrogant? Guilt-trippy? Foolish? Manipulative? Drama queens? It doesn't matter. None of their sins matter. We are to SERVE them, self-sacrificially, regardless. The extra mile. The cloak. The other cheek. Their smelly feet.

[The Gospel really sucks sometimes. ;-/]

JC Fisher

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joebrewer

You are misconstruing the movement, Jim, I'm guessing based on what you read in the (big corporation-owned) media.

Re occupying foreclosed homes, I believe that plan revolves around putting the less privileged in empty homes that big banks, often through predatory lending, are letting sit empty, ruining property values and neighborhoods from coast to coast. If you find that to be absolutely morally evil, instead of a desperate solution in desperate times, I can't change your mind.

Re people with upside down loans who walk away, I'm not sure that we should judge before we are in their shoes. Of course, it's worth noting that the banks lent and then sold the loans on the secondary market knowing this might happen, but mostly unaware of the precise risk of the loans and products they were dealing with (I worked at a national association of mortgage bankers in 2006-2007 when bankers were searching for a way to assess the risk of these activities). If banks are in it to save themselves, then why can't consumers do the same when faced with an alternative of complete financial ruin? There's no government bailout for them.

These smart, often young, people in the movement want a better world for themselves and everyone else. They think the system is broken, and they have concrete ideas to fix it. Any movement of this scope takes a while to get its bearings. Recall that the social movements of the 60s evolved over many years. They're in it for the long haul; they're not going anywhere. (Believe me, making a statement in 29 degree frigidity in New York City is not fun.)

Sadly, you take the easy route. You make it out to be a selfish movement. I have been on the ground and have seen nothing except selfLESSness. I invite you to spend time with me at OWS if you happen to come to or be near New York City. You might just change your mind if you witness it firsthand.

If you are serious about helping those in your last paragraph whom you judge to be the more morally responsible, I hope you will keep us updated on your progress in finding and helping them.

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Jim Hammond

"You have it, we need it, give it to us."

From where does such an expectation of entitlement come?

"I like a better place to live so I'm going to seize and occupy property that does not belong to me.

From where does the notion that such an action could be "right" come?

"It's the big banks, the mortgage brokers, the Realtor, a broken system, all so unfair ... they made me do it."

From where does such rationalization come?

"I'm upside down in my home so I'm just going to give up the keys and walk away. I can afford to pay the note each month but why should I take the loss."

From where does such a failure to take personal responsibility come? Do not such folk realize that their behavior only exacerbates the very system they are opposing, that by walking away they not only make it worse for themselves, but also for everyone else? Their actions create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Some of my more conservative acquaintances say that the participants in Occupy are nothing more than "thugs, bullies and anarchists." I cannot go that far but I will opine that Occupy is not winning the hearts and minds of the general populace, and they will need to do that in order finally to prevail in seeking change. The Sixty Minutes episode tonight featuring some folk who are nearing foreclosure in the Cleveland area demonstrates clearly to me that even when facing such trauma, there are still people who understand the meaning of taking personal responsibility for one's own behaviors, and who have the honor to stand up for what is right. Their stories brought me to tears. They made me proud. They are the ones I would like to find a way to help!

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joebrewer

I'm tired of hearing about Trinity "offering pastoral support." I stood outside in the 29 degree cold for five hours offering chaplaincy to people they had arrested leaving jail--and never saw a single Trinity priest coming by to offer pastoral support.

I agree with Stan--time for some deep reflection on Trinity's part. Maybe divestment is a good idea.

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Stan Chaz

You don’t need to be religious to understand -and embrace- the ideal that "Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." But the 1%, in their blind greed and schemes, has forgotten and closed their eyes to what the word "society" should really mean. Because of Occupy Wall Street, we are finally talking less about CUTS and more about BLEEDING. Instead of demanding more budget cuts -to be borne by the middle class and poor- we are FINALLY focusing on the shameful bleeding that the poor and middle class has endured for all too long. Instead of talking about even more cuts in the taxes of millionaires...we are now talking about fairness and justice - about an economy and a political system that is run for the rich, and by the rich. Instead of talking about LESS government, we are talking about a government that WORKS FOR ALL OF US, not just a favored few. Thank you OWS, for reminding us that people -ordinary working people- really DO matter, and for helping open our eyes to what’s really going on in this country. Trinty Church should look deep into its soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.

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