Well, maybe not preach so much like Paul. As I recall a young fellow fell out a window after falling asleep during one of Paul's sermons.

If we went back to New Testament real Christianity, not the fake stuff

If we did that, we would sell all our possessions and pool the money for the good of all.

To put it bluntly, we'd be communists.

And we'd be willing to risk our lives to spread the Gospel. We wouldn't have the gall to claim--as some do--that having a clerk at Target wish us "Happy Holidays" was a form of "persecution."

Somehow, I doubt that is what Mr. Warren has in mind....

Paige Baker

Regardless of how you feel about Rick Warren he is doing something right. He has millions of followers and helps them to meet Christ in their own way. I like the fact that he is making that challenge to his congregation, to not be luke warm but to work for God. Hopefully the work he has in mind isn't just about collecting money, but none the less at least his is trying to get people energized and passionate about Christ. I think TEC should follow his lead in this aspect.

I'm with Michael. I don't always agree with his theology, but the guy is crystal clear and consistent on his expectations for members of Saddleback. He sets the bar high, higher than most of us would dare to do in our own churches. I think that there is huge gulf between selling all that you have and our current state of church commitment. We don't have to bridge the entire gap, but we need to be willing get off our rears and actually do some evangelism rather than expecting people to just show up on Sunday morning because they really miss hearing those old hymns.

I'm willing to copy the methods and take a pass on the theology.

"...get off our rears and actually do some evangelism.."

What do you mean by evangelism? What does evangelism look like? What happens when you "evangelize"? What do you do, and what do you expect others to do? Why do you expect them to do that? Why do you expect yourself to do that? What difference is "evangelism" supposed to make in your life, the life of the Church, and the life of those so evangelized?

Again, more words thrown around. What does it all mean, really? Don't use "Christian" jargon to explain this, tell me--and tell yourself again--what this all means.

What I mean by evangelism is knowing why we are Christians, why we show up at church every week, why we attend an Episcopal church instead of another one, and then sharing that information with friends and colleagues. I find very few Episcopalians have any clue why they are Episcopal Christians and, while they wouldn't hesitate to enthusiastically recommend a favorite restaurant or a good mechanic, many Episcopalians go about in the world as "stealth" Episcopal Christians who are indistinguishable from the rest of humanity. If we don't know why we are Episcopal Christians, or we paint it as some sort of alternative to the Rotary or Lion's club, it hardly gives a compelling reason for others to join us.

Do we believe in the transformational power of a relationship with Jesus Christ? Do we believe that the Episcopal expression of Christianity has real value for people in a post-Christian society? Are our churches prepared to actively welcome, receive, incorporate, and form new believers? If the answer to any of those questions is "No" then there is no reason to believe that TEC will not continue to decline until we disappear or turn into a society that simply sustains shrines to a once active and missionary faith.

I am with Michael and Tom on this. I am no fan of Warren's, but demanding that we walk or talk seems like a no-brainer to me.

Regardless of how you feel about Rick Warren he is doing something right. He has millions of followers and helps them to meet Christ in their own way.

You mean by demonizing gays and lesbians here and in Africa and helping to strip them of their established legal rights? (He supported Prop 8 in CA and evidence suggests that he is at least partly responsible for the wave of homophobia sweeping Africa at the moment.)

So pardon me if I don't join the throng of his "followers"... (I really thought we were supposed to follow Jesus, but perhaps I was mistaken?)

we need to be willing get off our rears and actually do some evangelism rather than expecting people to just show up on Sunday morning because they really miss hearing those old hymns.

Maybe you are sitting on your rear, Tom, but please don't assume that the rest of us are. I assure you that most of us are not.

The “unchurched” people I talk to are pretty clear--they are tired of hearing pretty words about Jesus. Every time they turn around, someone calling him/herself "Christian" is stealing, lying, committing adultery, or engaging in the rankest forms of sexism, racism, and homophobia---all in Jesus' name. They look around and see people who are all talk (much of it nasty, hateful, and judgmental) and whose lives don't reflect in the slightest the things those people profess to believe.

They don’t care whether we are Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Catholics, or worshipers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They care that our faith makes some difference in our lives--and far too many of us don't give them any reason to be interested in Jesus at all.

So in our little corner of the world, we are evangelizing in the only way that really works--with our lives. We are out in the community, putting our time and efforts where our mouths/faith are. We are tilling our community garden with our neighbors (and giving a percentage to our local food pantries). We are building Habitat for Humanity houses. We are running a preschool and supporting the local daycare center that provides care for low-income kids. We are working with the local HELP group to create opportunities for people who are struggling economically.

We are also providing a stellar music program for the community, building a budding Spirituality in the Arts program, welcoming programs for newcomers, running two confirmation classes (at the moment), providing support for our sister parish/diocese in Costa Rica, sharing space and bridge-building events with our local conservative Jewish community, and providing thoughtful, inclusive worship services and Christian education opportunities. We also run a chaplaincy at the local college and have had several vocations from among our college students.

(And that's just off the top of my head...)

We do all of this in the name of Christ—not as an alternative to the Rotary Club. Our church motto is "We gather to worship. We scatter to serve."

If the church is dying, it will die because we have betrayed Christ in our daily lives. It will not die because we didn't copy Rick Warren--who, for many, is just another sigh of what's rotten with Christianity.

Paige Baker

Paige: I rejoice that you have a lively, growing congregation who apparently not only knows why they gather on Sunday morning but also why they "scatter" the rest of the week. Sadly, judging by Average Sunday Attendance (ASA) statistics and my own (albeit limited) experience, that is the exception, not the rule. Most churches I know simply get by on as little money as they can, hope for a better tomorrow, and don't bother inviting friends to a church service they wouldn't understand anyway. Good for your church to set the bar high and to walk their talk.

As I noted, I do not agree with Rick Warren's theology. I do, however, get really, really tired of seeing churches in which Jesus Christ seems an afterthought and service to others.seems an obligation, not a joyful result of God's grace experienced. I am glad that is not so at your church. Again, I'll be happy to copy a few things from Rick Warren without adopting his theology.