Well, I guess it's nice to know that the Humanists, Atheists and Agnostics can be just as religiously obnoxious as the Christians.

The author attacks overt humanists, atheists, and agnostics but then admits that many people who affiliate with a religious tradition do not believe the doctrines. Perhaps, like me, they tend to view doctrine as poetry to live by rather than truth in which case the opposition between believer and nonbeliever collapses.

I don't see what the big deal is whether some people like to tell religious stories while others tell humanist or nontheistic stories as long as everybody is decent with their neighbor.

"many people, continuing with a religious tradition despite doubts or nonalignment might be more about finding a community, tradition, culture and a social life rather than avoiding eternal damnation."

Gary Paul Gilbert

a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty.

Well, yes. Albert E is denouncing the "God" "speaking" in Hosea (et al).

But that's certainly not the God that THIS Christian has faith in! (And I think that few Mainline Christians, Roman Catholics or Jews WOULD endorse that "God").

Which begs the question: why is the AHA endorsing the Fundamentalists' "God"? :-/

JC Fisher

To continue the thought:

I'm reminded of the saying (attributed to German Communists, c. 1920s) "When we take over, we'll shoot all the Socialists. The Fascists, however, can be re-educated."

I sometimes get the feeling that Fundamentalist Theists and Fundamentalist Atheists believe something similar: "When we take over, we'll shoot all the Religious Liberals. The Fundamentalist (Theists/Atheists, respectively), however, can be re-educated."

JC Fisher

What's with all this talk of war over Christmas between humanists and Christians ?
I'm a humanist-Christian.
I see no need to take partisan sides. I commend to readers the words of one of my favorite yuletide songs "Rebel Jesus"

"We guard our world with locks and guns
And we guard our fine possessions
And once a year when Christmas comes we give to our relations
And perhaps we give a little to the poor
If the generosity should seize us
But if anyone should interfere
In the business of why there are poor
They get the same as the rebel Jesus."
-Jackson Browne

The Humanists have a point; I can't help but think that God teaches us through these religious "outcasts". The Bible was written for people, not the other way around. However, just because you reject a passage of scripture as uninspired or dangerous, you keep it as an example, for even rejected it is still a part of the greater Tradition.
Honestly, who is really taking Christ out of Christmas? If one wants Christ in Christmas, then go to church on Christmas. What does it mean, that Jesus "is the reason for the season"? And how about putting the waiting back into Advent? Want to be real counter-cultural? Try that!

Last New Year's Eve I was cornered in a British pub by a self proclaimed atheist who wanted to pummel religion for all the usual reasons. Finally I said to him that when poor and desperate people in local communities turn first to the local Atheist or Humanist organization for help, then he might have something to say to me.

So for this joyous season, about to begin I propose that people of faith everywhere give out the names and phone numbers of the local humanist and atheist leaders and suggest they call them for help.

All they can muster with their money is to attack people of faith, how come they are not using their dollars to publicize the relief of the poor efforts that they have organized and now run?

So I propose that people of faith go on strike this season and let the wonderfully moral atheist and humanist organizations replace all the compassionate aid they provide.

Call Bill Maher first!

So I propose that people of faith go on strike this season

If only the Prince of Peace would let us... ;-/

JC Fisher

I do get tired of the Them vs Us. May I direct you to this post at Friends of Jake.

Susan Forsburg

I'm happy that Christians have lost enough social power that it's difficult for us to retain the illusion of being in charge, though I worry about what well armed theocrats might do as they feel backed into a corner. I'm convinced that Jesus is more worried about his followers' bad behavior than the secularzation of Christmas, though the consumerism of the day is against everything he stood for. Authentic Christianity is humanistic, though perhaps not in the technical sense that these folks have in mind. Karl Barth once adapted the saying of Protagoras: Humanity is the measure of all things, because God became human. Irenaeus famously said that the glory of God is the human being fully alive. Surely, the mystery of the Word made flesh has to do with that more wonderful restoration of the dignity of humanity, made in God's image, distorted by sin, but never destroyed.

The atheists and humanists I know work for justice and help the poor at greater levels than all these people worried about "taking Christ out of Christmas." And it is really a joke that they think Xmas is taking Christ out of Christmas as that is the historic shorthand for Christ - X=Ch. IX being Jesus Christ in many icons and church art

What parts of Jesus' teaching or doing do I or any Christian need to apologize to the world for? I suspect that those who see the heart of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam or any other religion wonder the same.

Of course there are plenty of teachings and actions of followers for which repentance is the correct response.

It is also true that at the heart of Humanism there is likely nothing to apologize for either, although A-theism exists as a negative system by definition. But there is plenty of misbehavior among those who identify as atheists or humanists to apologize for as well.

What those of us who follow the heart of our beliefs must needs do is construct a world in which mutual respect and collaborative building for the common good of all is the hallmark. We can all share a call to repent for the structures that destroy people and their environment, that stunt their physical and mental development, that restrict them from a level playing field for dignified work, etc. In a better world we could do that without attacking one another's core beliefs even as we held one another accountable for actions that pervert or undercut those beliefs.

Sadly the only voices heard in all these systems are those of the hysterical nasty fringes, and to be honest I don't like any of them very much Christian, Muslim or Humanist/Atheist. What is required is for the moderating broad tent voices to rise up and spend the same sort of money that the fundamentalist extremists are spending in order to counter the message.

Sad as that is to think, clearly it is necessary.