"I suspect that some Catholics become Anglicans because they do not wish to be associated with the uncharitable, dogmatic bigotry which, sadly and depressingly, so often raises its head in the comments columns of the CH."

Q.E.D.

Lucie-Smith admires 'Alpha" (good grief!)and wonders out loud along the lines of, "We also need to realise that there has to be sound teaching and sound learning of the doctrine of the faith."

The fact is, some Catholics formerly of Roman obedience ( they like that word "obedience" on the other shore) are now Anglicans in order to disavow this kind of conservative outlook.

Not listed among Lucie-Smith's reasons for former Roman Catholics becoming Anglicans is that they have freedom.

A blessed Nativity to everyone at Episcopal Cafe.

I would cautious of the call to ecumenicalism with the Catholic Church. I have noted that since the death of John Paul, the Catholic Church has seen ecumenicalism has been pretty much as a one way street, with every other denomination getting in line and submitting to their beliefs. Anglicanism and Episcopalianism is a rowdy faith. We don't all have to believe the same thing to belong and that causes a sometime contencious environment, but there is no requirement to obey and conform. I think that is what this priest might be missing in his thought process about why people convert to Anglicanism. The simple truth is that many convert to Episcopalianism because it is open and accepting. You can come as you are, warts and all. And you get to struggle along other Christian to discern God's desires in our modern world. Yes, fellowship is very imporant in the Episcopal faith, but so in curiosity, rational thought and beautiful rites.

My wife swam the Thames to be part of an inclusive (both for women and LGBT), socially active, and justice-oriented Episcopal community. She was a very active Roman Catholic who was rejected by her church. Lots and lots of our fellow congregants are ex-RC. As someone said, Episcopalians are the real post-Vatican II Catholics.

""I suspect that some Catholics become Anglicans because they do not wish to be associated with the uncharitable, dogmatic bigotry which, sadly and depressingly, so often raises its head in the comments columns of the CH."

Ya think?!

Susan Forsburg

If I were to give one reason for becoming Anglican/Episcopalian, it would be that the Episcopal Church embodies the spirit of Vatican II better than the RC church seems to at this time. I was raised in the creative, optimistic, dare-to-change-the-world ethusiasm that followed the Council. I went into seminary in that same period and I believe in that vision quite deeply, warts and all. As I watched them backing away (often running away) from that vision it seemed that I could spend the rest of my life frustrated and angry or I could go where there were others like me. That's when Bishop Paul from Bethlehem invited me to have a conversation and the rest is history. I must say that my decision has been affirmed over and over again since that day. Thanks Bishop Paul!

Didn't we cover this article almost a month ago, when it was published? [Seems familiar]

The Popoid * claim "We're TRUE because we say we are!" claim never fails to astonish w/ its lack of persuasiveness. Yes, it was long useful as a method of indoctrination, when Roman Catholics never looked outside themselves. In the 21st century, fuhgeddaboutit!

JC Fisher

* I'm not going to have to defend the term "Popoid" here on the Cafe again, am I? "Popoid" is a SUBSET of Roman Catholics, currently found in higher % the closer you get (chain-of-command) to Vatican. In the Global North, also highly woven into socio-political conservatism. Popoidism seeks social control (esp. on the sexual/biological/scientific habits of others) while SIMULTANEOUSLY claiming to be the "victim" of others asserting their personal rights. It is "Ultra-Montane" (looking over the mountains to "Peter", the Bishop of Rome), while ignoring him (say, on economic or judicial issues) when it clashes w/ political conservatism. HTH.

A comment was made in an address at our last diocesan convention which stuck with me. I can't remember if it was made by our bishop, Alan Scarfe, or by the keynote speaker, Richard Giles, but in a nutshell it was that Roman Catholics can sometimes look with envy upon Anglicans because we get to practice "adult Christianity".

-Cullin R. Schooley

I made the switch in my early 20s, and my parents followed a couple of years later. The RC church I experienced was dominated by the "culture of mediocrity" Andrew Greeley has written about: mediocre preaching, half-hearted liturgy, cantors who could not sing on key. RC parishes are so big now that priests hardly have time for routine pastoral care. Then there is the clericalism and doctrinal rigidity.

In TEC I found clergy and laity who genuinely wanted to give their best to God and God's people. The quality of preaching and music, even on the off days, was light-years better than what I'd been used to. It was okay to use the gift of my mind here, and laity were welcomed into ministry and church governance. Our parishes are small enough that members can get to know each other and priests can be available to parishioners. My parents were stunned when a TEC priest came over to their house to get to know them, shortly after they'd joined his parish; in 25 years at their RC church, no one had ever done that. And they got attentive pastoral care from clergy and parishioners when my grandfather died a few months later.

In the US context, the sexual-abuse scandal has to be mentioned. It was one of two factors my parents named in their resignation letter to their RC pastor, the other being my call to ordination. (There were persistent though unproven allegations of abuse in their parish going some years back, and the bishop who confirmed my sister and me was implicated in covering up abuse.) My parents had entrusted their children to the church, and not only had the church not deserved their trust, they considered the response from the hierarchy and their own parish completely inadequate.

A big difference between the two traditions is that Rome says it is infallible, while Canterbury makes no such claims.

Gary Paul Gilbert

I moved from the Roman Catholic Church to the Episcopal Church in 2009. I had spent 15 years as a convert to the Catholic Church. I was confirmed and received my first Holy Communion in 1995. At that time I was still in the closet about being gay. When I came out in 2000 my relationship with the Catholic Church was never the same. From August 2007 to November 2008 I spent time in the Catholic Church's ex-gay group Courage. At my last meeting in 2008 my eyes were opened that this was the wrong thing to do. I came back out. In Feb of 2009 I met my partner. The following May we began attending the local Episcopal Cathedral. It was like we had stepped out of one world into another. There were many things I recognized from my time as a Catholic, yet there was also a tremendous difference. Jason and I were accepted there.

On May 15, 2010 Jason was confirmed and I was received into the Episcopal Church by Bishop Prior of Minnesota. When Jason went ahead of me to be confirmed, Bishop Prior personally and publicly invited me to come stand behind him and lay hands on Jason with the Bishop as he was confirmed. That for me, made the last question of our Baptismal Covenant come home for me.

Now when I read something that the local Catholic Archbishop does that upsets me, I remind myself that Bishop Prior is now my Bishop. Okay, I know he is our Bishop.

I think the Episcopal Church with it's Anglican heritage, holds the keys to the best Liturgy in Christendom and yet there is a down to earth warmth that keeps things in a perspective. There is a deeper sense of thought that allows for various forms of expression and understanding with out "big brother" Church lording over everyone.

The Episcopal Church and Anglicanism still has it's many issues that remain to be solved. But one of the greater parts of being Episcopalian is that the Episcopal Church recognizes that we aren't always going to get it right. The Church admits that we have many flaws in our historical traditions. There have been enormous strides made in years past and there will be many others to come.

The two things I've heard multiple times by former RCs involved clergy/hierarchical behaviors.

None have yet brought up the sex abuse scandal, which brought incredible anger and disenfranchisement. Similarly, when a beloved bishop in our area died several years ago, his successor separated huge numbers of non-priestly leaders from leadership positions throughout the diocese. These dramatic events (and others like it) of abuse of power have had an enormous impact.

The other reason I've heard, and perhaps the more profound one involved having an Episcopal/Anglican priest actually give the individual the time of day. They, for the first time, were treated by clergy as more than just a number.

I think the Episcopal Church with it's Anglican heritage, holds the keys to the best Liturgy in Christendom and yet there is a down to earth warmth that keeps things in a perspective.

Amen.

I left the RCC because of the child abuse scandal, but it was actually the cover-up that was the last straw. Who knew but that the abusers were ill, but what about the supposedly sane leaders in the church who participated in the cover-up?

Even before the child abuse scandal, my relationship with the RCC was an uneasy alliance because of power issues, such as the discipline dealt to some of the finest minds amongst RC theologians and professors in RC universities.

June Butler

The comments from Father Lucie-Smith reminded me, once again, why I became an Episcopalian. I grew up across the street from my Roman Catholic parish church and school; attended 12 years of Catholic school; and loved most of it. Until I became an adult and realized how little the Roman Catholic church valued me, a woman. Fr. Lucie-Smith, it has little to do with the esthetics that you have so flippantly noted. It has much more to do with appreciating and respecting women as ministers of the church, whether ordained or not. A church that ordains women also values women as leaders. Jesus was a pretty inclusive sort, according to the New Testament. It has always saddened me that His Church is not. I grew up in the Vatican II church which threw open the windows that the succeeding leaders carefully slammed and nailed shut. So that is where you need to begin, Fr. Lucie-Smith: try opening those windows and let the fresh air back in.

Gia Hayes-Martin: your post was caught in the spam filter. It now appears in the timeline when you posted it. Sorry for the delay.

Kurt Wiesner