If you study the history of Israel there have been many many evils committed by both Palestinians and Israelis. Israel has a right to exist, and not to be attacked by terrorists or anti-Jewish alliances of neighboring countries, who also support terrorists. Israel must stop the expansion of settlements, and BOTH sides must demonstrate a willingness to live in peace with each other.

I suggest those who think Palestinians can just share meals with their oppressors read the Jewish voice for peace

I'm with the Presiding Bishop in this matter. I'm grateful for her courage to be the prophetic voice even when that voice may not be politically correct nor popular. Her words expressed a sense of balance and fairness which is often sadly lacking on this very sensitive subject.

Jan Olandese (added by ~ed.)

I must say that I was completely surprised when I read the PB's comments about not divesting in Israel. I was surprised in a good way. It takes courage to make a balanced statement like that in today's Protestant mainline churches. It is sad that many liberal Protestants can't accept that Israel has a right to exist.

Morris Post

Morris -- those who oppose Israel's actions agains Palestinians do not say Israel has no right to exist. It is not just Protestants -- also many Jews are ashamed of the building of settlements in areas of generations of Palestinian homes and lands. Bulldozing down houses, tearing up productive orchards to build settlements for Jews only. The wall and other oppressive actions keeps people from working at their jobs, children from school, many from getting to hospitals-- it is not a civilized country who treats citizens and neighbors like this. That is what we want stopped -- not Israel itself. We want Israel to be a light to world - a light of freedom as God has promised. See what others are saying - visit. Here both sides.

The wall is an "oppressive action?" The wall Israel built to protect itself against regular Palestinian suicide attacks that took the lives of hundreds of Israeli citizens and which has succeeded in stopping those attacks? That wall? Anyone who considers the wall to be an oppressive action apparently "loves" Israel so much that they'll defend it even to the last drop of Jewish blood.

More Jewish voices against the actions of the Israeli policies here. The wall has just produced more disaffected people not safety.

I think that people can take whatever stand they want on this issue. My only concern is that the United States isn't forced to back Israel if they decide to make a preemptive strike against one of their Middle Eastern neighbors.

Most of these comments seem predicated on the assumption that something other than a state of war exists throughout the Middle East. That is an incorrect assumption. There has been no conclusive end to the 1967 war, no area wide peace treaty and certainly no sign that the losers of that war understand that they lost the war.

Until there is a peace treaty akin to the Israel-Egypt treaty Israel is under no real obligation to consider demands from anyone. Losers of wars sure for peace they do not demand and dictate the terms of it as a prerequisite for the laying down of arms. As long as they engage in violence, especially terrorist violence, and as long as they permit terrorists to continue the war they have little to complain of.

Losing territory is a cost of losing a war. The entire middle east as we now have it was hacked out of the Ottoman Empire after it was defeated along with Germany at the end of the WWI. We do not remember either that the Muslim world was allied with the Axis powers in the WWII and were on the losing side again, although they brokered a better deal than they did after WWI. The Muslim Brotherhood, now coming to the fore in Egypt was quite content to support the Reich's holocaust of Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and others. After thousands of years of persecution, one wonders why Israel should be quick to trust that anyone intends peace with them?

Those groups that work within their setting to bring peace between groups deserve our support and because they are indigenous they are the right ones to speak forcefully to their own leaders.

The rest of us, however, should press for an end to all terrorist and military hostilities from Israel's neighbors and a complete cessation of all attacks as the prerequisite for any support for their claims. The Palestinian people need to take the lead in rooting out and removing all who contemplate or do terrorist acts, it is not enough just to condemn them.
The only thing that terrorism accomplishes is to justify harsher measure by Israel, and frankly they engage in them to harden Israel as a way of carving off Israel's allies.

As hard as this is to swallow, the loser of a war has to surrender and lay down arms before the victor does. And until the state of war is concluded, Israel has no obligation to expose its citizens to further terror. Courts can and no doubt will prosecute many cases from the 45 years of the Six Day War, but it will not end until one side of the other acknowledges that it lost.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality"

"Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured."

- Archbishop Desmond Tutu,

I remember the Reagan administration arguing against divestment in South Africa under apartheid. The message was not to bother with justice but to focus on Washington's economic and foreign policy needs. Desmond Tutu is very thankful that parishes in this country didn't buy that argument but joined the divestment movement. Without divestment it most likely would have taken much longer to overthrow apartheid.

A critique of the Iraeli government, by invoking the prophets of the Hebrew Bible or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, may be more faithful to Judaism than what the current Israeli government has been preaching.

One may criticize an institution out of love, a tough love which demands the institution live up to its best ideals.

My main concern, however, is that the Episcopal brand has turned bland as preached by the PB. It reminds me of when church headquarters got rid of their cleaners and hired temps.

Gary Paul Gilbert

As hard as this is to swallow, the loser of a war has to surrender and lay down arms before the victor does.

Good Lord, Michael, what does this RealPolitik have to do w/ the Gospel???

Because if we're playing THAT game, let me react 100% in kind:

IF Israel wants peace---

The last person to die must be an Israeli.

The last 100 people to die must be Israeli.

The last 1000 people to die will, probably, have to be Israeli.

Only by then, maybe, will the Palestinian existential sense of rage&grief&resentment burn itself out, and Palestinian voices DISGUSTED with killing overwhelm the Revenge-Addicts.

Brutal, no? Hard to swallow?

But that's RealPolitik.

Jesus (and Gandhi and King) offered---offer---us a Better Way.

JC Fisher

Anne, while I'm for a Palestinian state, it seems richly ironic for an American to talk about other countries as not being civilized because of their oppressive policies and actions.

Dear Bill -- I am also a critic of the US - I don't get to decide policies but I oppose our oppressive policies and actions as well as Israel's. I am ashamed of what goes on in my name.

Ann (no e)

@JC The is a much greater chance of ending things on the playing field of the rules of war as opposed to the field of the blood fued. In intractable situations it is often useful to move the turf rather than endlessly perpetuating an intractable dynamic.

Israel's military forces can and should be held accountable for whatever war crimes they have committed. As I said, I expect war crimes trials. That said there is an onus on those who celebrate and perpetuate terrorism against civilian populations while hiding among civilian populations. Those civilians would be wise, if they want a cessation, to drive the terrorists out of their communities. But to say to a stronger force that they must be nice while elements of your community continue to target civilians is so unrealistic as to border on insanity.

Jews have been targeted, persecuted and exterminated for milennia by nearly everyone (an exception being their treatment under earlier more cosmopolitan Islamic regimes). For Christians, the main body of their persecutors, to opine about how they should conduct themselves is disingenuous if not laughable.

I wish the violence to cease, I wish the people of the Middle East could find a path to peace, but it will not come by Christians once again seeking to dictate to Jews how they must respond to what they have good reason to believe is an ongoing effort to exterminate them.

I don't believe in "dictating to Jews" (or anyone).

I don't believe in blank-checking the Israeli military, either.

I DO believe in non-violence. For Israeli and Palestinian alike. Which ought to be modeled by those seeking to play "fair negotiator". Yes, as I alluded, I'm not interested in RealPolitik.

JC Fisher