CPG already has the 30 years and out with full pension and the ability to go somewhere else and earn whatever you can get. I find the whole product comparison with church pretty offensive but then I am old and a priest.

And Bp. Alan Wilson reviews a book that counters using the latest trendy tricks to grow church- in favor of the old reliable here

The Episcopal Church (and The Church in general) needs to get out of survival mode (circling the drain, hoping for something to change) and start making things actually happen.

My first suggestion: A major, national push to invite liberal Catholics (and ex-Catholics) to come home to their local liturgically-oriented, female-led congregation. This would require a renewal of Episcopalian liturgical and musical practice (to make those of Roman heritage feel at home). Get enough ex-Catholics, give them a place to raise their children, and the problem will start to solve itself.

Oh- while we're at it- get rid of the 1982 Hymnal. That will help.

I think an early retirement fund might make some sense but before we do it some folks need to study the IBM effect. When IBM did its first early retirement they just said, "OK, anyone over X with Y years service can leave with Z benefits." Guess who left? The IBM managers expected it to be the least vibrant and well thought of older middle managers. Wrong! It was the best thought of and most desirable who decided to take the money and advance to other things. The drones held on to their desks with death grips.

And it might be we would be better off with an early debt repayment fund. Get the newer MDivs out from under the debt load.

FWIW
jimB
Jim Beyer

The church delivers, despite all notions or illusions to the contrary, products (programs and pastoral care) and services (liturgy, counseling) to its consumers (parishioners, members of the local community/communities). This commercialized or "product comparison" thesis may be flawed, even unsettling, but it's true. What is also objectively true is that organizational systems that don't transform themselves or evolve over time, die. This outcome is true of Levi's just as it is true of mainline denominational churches & their struggling parishes/communities. Some factors such as outsourcing and cheaper overseas products are somewhat out of Levi's control. Demographic and economic changes likewise cause decline in Episcopal Churches. However, these symptoms are not only the only reasons or excuses for corporate and ecclesiastical closures. Companies and their leaders like Levi's or of communities of faith who say they want to change but are unwilling or paralyzed in doing so in rural and (sub)urban settings alike will face cataclysmic consequences. Some parishes may have the human and economic resources to endure through this period of reformation. Many do not.

Young people in this society, IMHO, are becoming increasingly secularized. There are assuredly a number of "echo generation" young people and adults out there who love the Gospel and find meaning in Church. Nonetheless, the consequences of being plugged into a 24 hour network of virtual and real world activities are staggering. Coming to Church for teens and their parents in this day and age often comes down to a choice of whether or not it is "worth their time." We have to prove to them that our spiritual, vocational, and ministerial "offerings" are trustworthy and good.

I have a meeting with some of our 15 confirmation candidates this afternoon. I dread hearing them say that Church is "boring" but I'm confident that one or two of them will honestly make that point. I'm also hoping and praying that they gained something in their relationships with God and one another during their confirmation process. I pray that a significant % of them will say it's been worth their time and make witness to that opinion by continuing to participate in the Church's life, short and long term. We shall see.

It's my hope that our parish's focus on "client relationships" will help us to understand how we are, and are not, meeting young people's needs & hopes while helping to calm their fears. I also hope to hear how the catechism period has somehow helped them to mature as Christians while leaving them with a sense of our desire for them to be healthy and holy leaders in this Christian community. I trust that we have given them the food and wisdom they need to "go out and do the work that God has given us to do as faithful witnesses to Christ our Lord.

Commercial "lingo" would say that we're trying to ascertain the levels of our "demographic client satisfaction." St. Paul might suggest that we're engaged in a process of "equipping the saints." In either event, we need to objectively and relationally determine if we are in any way relevant to the young people who are (and are not) in the Church and who are the "Church" of now and the future. All of these "objectives" are based in determining whether or not we will able to continue the transformational process that has gone on in the Church for centuries.

I am young adult and cradle Epicopalian. I can tell you first hand our church is not doing a good job of attracting youth or young adults. Our church is and will continue to suffer more and more if we do not change this cycle. TEC needs to open its eyes and start doing things differently to attract and bring in not just more young people, but more people in general with an emphasis on young people. Youth ministry is strong in some diocese but its all for nothing because as soon as that youth goes off to college there is no Episcopal presence there or any reason for a young adult in college to go to church since they don't have others like them at church or anything to attract them there in the first place. We need to evangalize and we need to make it a priority.

I have a meeting with some of our 15 confirmation candidates this afternoon. I dread hearing them say that Church is "boring" but I'm confident that one or two of them will honestly make that point. I'm also hoping and praying that they gained something in their relationships with God and one another during their confirmation process. I pray that a significant % of them will say it's been worth their time and make witness to that opinion by continuing to participate in the Church's life, short and long term. We shall see.

Jim, there is hope. Two weekends ago, I was on retreat with nearly a dozen young confirmands nearing the end of their two-year preparation (meeting monthly). In a sort of "exit interview" (it keeps with the commercial analogy, no?) they expressed how much more now they pay attention in church and appreciate its place in their lives because they understand it now.

I think one of our critical failures as an institution is a failure of catechesis: why we do what we do, and inviting our children from a very young age into engagement with the lively elements of our faith.

The good news is that there is a lot of great material out there. And this need for catechesis is not just for the young, but for everyone.

In my experience, this is a great place for an established but struggling parish to enhance its mission -- bringing the Gospel more vibrantly to its own members!

I'm afraid that I do not know who Jennie Williams is, but I have heard this argument about how burdensome it is for priests/pastors to make calls on their parishioners. I must say that I always find that offensive.
If we REALLY believe that lay persons can "do it all" then we need to make every baptized lay person have all the faculties of a priest. They need to be able to preside at liturgies, offer blessings, etc. If not, then we have to admit that having chaplaincy duties is a clergy responsibility and stop whining about that.
What I believe that we need is more than just "youth outreach." Yes, we need to be relevant to youth and inclusive of them and sensitive to their needs. BUT, it is foolish to think that "once you got them as youths, they'll hang on until they're old." We need to recognize the needs of not just youth, but 20 somethings, 30 somethings, persons of middle age, the elderly, etc. There are plenty of church alumni who leave AFTER they have ceased to be youths. IMHO, we need to focus more on spiritual development and formation across all of the stages of life. The needs and questions and concerns of someone in middle age are not going to be answered by programming for youth and vice versa.
We don't need campaigns and strategies as much as we need CONTENT.
In the end, it's not just the music, the building, the percentage of persons over 50, whether we wear Levis or capris pants. If there is relevant content and community, then that's what keeps people.

I am a 40 something ex-evangelical that is raising a young family inside the Anglican Church of Canada. I can’t imagine returning to the narrow Christianity of my youth but I think we can learn from our more theology conservative brethren. One of the keys to their success is there commitment to “church planting”. The simple fact is that young people like young churches. To be effective we need to divert resources from stagnate or dieing existing churches too youthful and thriving ones. We need more “A” type entrepreneurial leadership for these new churches; too many of our priest is content to “gracefully manage” the declining congregations. We also risk being seen as a “niche” church for intellectuals, Gays and the activist left. I think it’s great that these people feel welcome at our church but it important to realize that we also need to reach the straight couple with the minivan. Lastly and most importantly we need to rediscover the gospel. We are all sinners that need Christ’s love and forgiveness. In our eagerness to model Christ loving acceptance of everyone, we have dangerously downplayed the concept of sin. Without making clear to people what our problem is (our helplessness in the face of our own sin) the solution (Christ and his Church) seem unnecessary.

[Steve - Thank you for your thoughtful comment. In case you wonder why some of your past comments never approved it's because the Cafe has a transparency policy requiring comments be signed with first and last names. We're human, and only occasionally provide grace. -ed.]

Thank you all for the great diversity of thoughtful comments. Most could stand as posts in their own right, and I hope they generate further comment.

Jim Beyer, you are absolutely right about the adverse selection that elective early retirement packages present. Ironically, the nature of that problem is also an information economics problem. The likelihood that the best would leave is enough to make me wish I'd never suggested the idea.

I wonder how a temporary reduction in the mandatory age of retirement would go down? Assuming that such a plan would be designed so if it prevented someone getting 30 years they would be granted a full pension.

Well enough alone, I suppose.

I agree with Richard. There is a desperate need for good catechesis, and I think people are hungry for it.

In order to profit from that hunger, publisher have produced a lot of material. Our hungry congregants will find some of it. Some of it will be good. But those two sets don't necessarily overlap... Church leaders, clergy and lay alike, have got to take responsibility for teaching and reinforcing the basics of the faith and for inviting people to learn more.

Basically we human beings want to be secure. We support institutions that provide security; the military & police, financial institutions, schools, hospitals, etc.

For what needs does the church provide security. The church once provided security against the consequences of sin -- confess and be absolved; hell -- accept Jesus and go to heaven; and social chaos -- it kept the records and taught morality.

None of these hold much cultural power anymore or have been taken over by other institutions. From what does the church now secure anyone?

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, we like to say that, "There's a new 50 year old born every minute." Which is to say that the cohort that is growing is the 50+ group who have an empty nest, are ina new new marriage, or coming to the end of one career or another and are now looking for significance.
They become effective catechists for other 50+ folks and the truth is that for another 20 years or so life in the USA will still be dominated by the Boomers.
I think we want a vibrant intergenerational church and that is the strength of the neighborhood church model. But we cannot lay the blame for shrinking on the age of our membership, because there are, after all, plenty of 50+ folks out there still to be churched.
I think that if you do what you do well and with some integrity people will come, perhaps not as many as go to those "spectacular-spectacular" churches, but good solid people wanting good solid Christian foundations in their lives.
I saw a great mini-talk on the TED site (Technology, Entertainment, and Design) about the difference in leadership and culture between Apple and other puter companies. The fellow drew three circles the inner circle was "Why" the next ring out was "How" and the outer ring was "What". In a quixk speech he compared Apple, which works outwards from "Why" to "What" to companies that begin with "What" and work inwards. His argument is that Apple's working from "Why" inspires their employees and the public. Just look at the ads for the IPad to see some "Why" "What" oriented companies can never break out of their box.

I believe most of the conversation on Church growth is "What"->"How"-> "Why" oriented. We would profit by turning it around.

On the invention of the camera, Delacroix, when asked if the art of painting was now dead, replied, No! Now the painter is freed to make art. And so it is with the church.
It was thought that the role of the painter was to create the most realistic representations of that which surrounds us, there were many fine crafts persons who could do such with amazing accuracy and skill. The artist had to do something different, had to see the world in a different way, move beyond the confines of what was expected, known. Our children see the world differently than we, they see the world with more sophisticated eyes and have a broader view of reality, they are exposed to more variety of thought and opinion than we in our youth. If the church is to draw or indeed hold our youth through the stages of their life, it will have to offer that which is in short supply in the world we inhabit, honesty, transparency, integrity, and the ability to act on it's beliefs, whatever they may be. Undefended dogma will not cut it, unexamined stasis will not suffice.
Bruno Finocchio

Like Michael, I too am a young adult, fresh out of college, where God lead me to the Episcopal Church. I think that the church, especially given its Anglican heritage has a lot to offer my generation. Chiefly, the ancient, sacramental witness of the church provides us with an opportunity to ground ourselves and our identities into something that is lasting and meaningful; not preoccupied with image, power, or sex.

Unfortunately, one look at the Episcopal Church yields just that. The only time we make the news is when we do something in relation to sexuality, whether it be passing a resolution permitting same sex blessings or ordaining partnered homosexuals (strike one). A closer study of the church finds the ongoing struggle between conservative and liberal factions over who really represents the church, and who owns the buildings (strike two). A look at the leadership produces a large number of resolutions and symbolic actions. Take, for example, the Arizona immigration debate where the Bishops are foregoing the boycott and meeting in Arizona to "stand in solidarity with immigrants." While these motions maybe all well and good for some people, I feel like my generation sees such actions as poppycock excuses to sound nice without getting anyone's hands dirty. (Image - Strike Three). Right now I don't think that the M.O. of the church offers anything that us young adults couldn't get by turning to the nearest pop-radio station (save for better music).

In order for the church to reach out to younger people, it needs to, in the Words of Steve from Toronto, rediscover the Gospel: that God became Man to save sinners, so that he could reconcile us to him. For us in this generation, this is a powerful message, and for the church to survive into the next generation, it needs to embrace it like it's life depends on it.
In Christ

Alex Quick

What captivated me about TEC, as a 23-year-old not so long ago, was a congregation that took seriously my gifts for leadership. I was asked to teach an adult forum, lead a small group, and run for vestry within 18 months of joining the parish. Young adults need to hear that God and the church value their gifts, and they want to be guided to ministries that will draw upon those gifts. I'm less concerned about clergy spending so much time with older parishioners than with older parishioners having a death-grip on parish leadership.

Michael, I think you're on to something. We have good news the world desperately needs to hear. That's the "why." If it ultimately results in membership increases, that's fine, but growth can't be an end in itself. The gospel is the end.

Alex, I'm not sure TEC deserves blame for the news coverage it gets. The media loves anything to do with either conflict or sex, and conflict about sex in a church--even though it may have little to do with the day-to-day reality of most Episcopalians--is always going to sell more ads than feeding the hungry or visiting the sick in Jesus' name. What are we doing that is more newsworthy than conflict, and how are we telling that story?

Dear Friends,

First, can we all agree to stop using the label "offensive" whenever we encounter something that makes us uncomfortable? The first thing that you're going to encounter when you enter into real relationships with young people is that they're going to make you feel uncomfortable, and labeling their thoughts and opinions - their *faithful* and *honest* thoughts and opinions - as offensive says, clearly, "you and your ideas are not welcome here." So, please, if you really desire to see more young people, let's deal with our own discomfort in the privacy of our own Facebook pages.

Secondly, as a 34 year old priest, who has been ordained for 9 years now, I can tell you that what young people want is to be taken seriously (see my first point) and to be given the opportunity to lead. Where are the Vestry seats, Standing Committee seats, Diocesan and General Convention Delegate seats, Committee Chairmanships, or even the preaching licenses available to young people - 16 years and older? I know that they exist, where Canon allows, but it isn't the norm by any means. If you want to know where the young people are, they are wherever opportunities like this exist - the corporate world, the military, politics, and even non-profits. Young people are hungry for any opportunity to lead and to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are graciously given to them in baptism... without the opportunity in the church, they seek it elsewhere.

Lastly, perhaps we should stop thinking in terms of how we might do ministry TO young people and, instead, start thinking about how we might do ministry WITH young people. As I said above, it is imperative that we include youth and young adults in the *REAL* work of the church. Instead of relegating them to being an object of our ministry, let's ask them to join us in our ministry.

Faithfully,
Michael Pipkin

Once again I continue to be grateful for these constructive and insightful comments -- from all ages.

To pick up on Pipkin's point of taking young people seriously, I wonder how many churches how closed their organization is to outsiders, including in that term young people in the church. I wonder if they are aware that it might be wise to have a vestry that looks more like where you want to be than where you are.

To go back to business cases, even businesses that want to incorporate women into important positions and eliminate a culture of systemic discrimination make little progress unless they put women in positions of authority, including but not just in human resources.

"We are all sinners that need Christ’s love and forgiveness. In our eagerness to model Christ loving acceptance of everyone, we have dangerously downplayed the concept of sin."

Really? Really...What sort of sin are you talking about? What "concept", like there's only one "concept of sin". "We are all sinners"...what do you mean by "sinner"? I want to know. "...in need of Christ's love and forgiveness.." or what? What does that mean, and what happens if I don't get it? Again, I really want someone to tell me.

Moving on...yes, we need eager young people in positions of leadership and participating in the life of the Church...as it actually is. What is the good of a "youth mass" with music that is entirely different than that of the usual Sunday Eucharist in the Anglican tradition? What good is a "children's choir" that sings kiddie music? That becomes a talent show, a "look at me!" (or "my kids!") and a "isn't *my* music and the way *I* want to do church great too?" kind of hodgepodge that refuses to take kids and youth and young adults with the seriousness they deserve. It also serves to demean, segment-out and make irrelevant the ways, images, and sounds we have received as Anglicans from our ancestors. If you don't want church to look and sound like Anglicanism, then don't come to church here.

Further, a "youth chair" or "youth seat" on the vestry, or whatever, forget it. You are either on the Vestry, or are not, no matter how old you are. Actually, just forget "youth sunday" as well, Sunday is just Sunday, church is church, and people of all ages must be welcomed into doing church as it is, which means all you church professionals can't be mediocre at your jobs and try to make up for it with even more mediocre "youth [events]" that purport to be "exciting" or "fresh" or whatever, but usually wind up being lame and discordant with the usual life of the parish, worship and otherwise.

Friends of mine and I myself skip church often, yet are still hungry for what TEC can offer at its best. Why don't we go? We are post-graduate, single people. Most churches are focused on young families, yet my generation is widening the ways in which we live together, or alone. We are also looking for a religious life outside of Sunday morning at 10:15.

Staff members given the responsibility of ministering to 20s/30s groups are often also saddled with family ministry, running Sunday School, and at least one Youth Group as well.

I attended a local evangelical, 'emerging' church. Once. I felt very at home in that crowd of younger people, but the theology and liturgy weren't up to snuff. I think this is a common experience. TEC has the tradition and theology that many of my generation are looking for. But they don't see enough of themselves or their ideas anywhere in sight when they get there to find it.

@Richard Heimer: catechesis for all! (members and non members.) The 'emerging' church sees this need and acts toward it.

@Jim Beyer: Yes! As a church, we must fund, reform, and revitalize theological education. Education debt is rampant among my age group and getting worse with each graduating class. Many of us can't afford to leave a job for three years to pay tuition and housing at one of the 11 residential seminaries, many of which are in crippling debt themselves.

Attracting "young" people (and I'm not sure what demographic people mean with that term) does not require folk/rock/contemporary music. We have as many 20s/30s at our 11:15 service with Anglican chants as at the 5:00 with a band. A non-church-going friend (34 y.o.) came with me to our Christmas Eve Midnight Mass because she wanted some church music. The important point here is to have a variety of activities and worship styles and to be welcoming and inclusive.

Second, one of the strengths of the church can be its intergenerational nature.