2 percent - UPDATE on Ft Worth vote
UPDATE: 3:30 PM ET --Statement from the Presiding Bishop from epiScope:
November 15, 2008The Episcopal Church grieves the departures of a number of persons from the Diocese of Fort. Worth. We remind those former Episcopalians that the door is open if they wish to return. We will work with Episcopalians in the Diocese of Fort Worth to elect new leadership and continue the work of the gospel in that part of Texas. The gospel work to which Jesus calls us demands the best efforts of faithful people from many theological and social perspectives, and The Episcopal Church will continue to welcome that diversity.
UPDATE: Vote tallies below
Updated at bottom with link on Fort Worth's departure.
In all likelihood the bishop, and a majority of clergy and lay delegates to the Diocese of Fort Worth convention will vote to leave the Episcopal Church, align temporarily with the Province of the Southern Cone and wait upon the right time to become part of a new improved Anglican Province of North America.In this action the bishop and delegates will join similar groups of folk in the Dioceses of San Joaquin, Pittsburgh and Quincy.
The question is, how may people does this represent? Well, its hard to tell.
In terms of raw numbers, the most recent estimates we have on these dioceses are as follows:_______Total Membership ........................ Average Sunday Attendance (ASA)
San Joaquin ... 10,500 .................................................. 4,000
Pittsburgh ........ 20,000 .................................................. 8,000
Quincy ................. 1,850 .................................................. 1,000
Fort Worth ........ 17,000 .................................................. 7,000
Totals ............... 49,350 ................................................. 20,000The current figures given for the membership of The Episcopal Church is 2,154,000 (domestic) 2,320,000 total. The average Sunday attendance is 764,000 (domestic) 804,000 total.
This means that if everyone in the four dioceses left those dioceses, the percentage of the whole membership and ASA would be approximately 2.2% total and 2.5%. ASA.
But of course not all the people of those dioceses are leaving. Supposing 3/4 are, that percentage drops below 2%.
News on Fort Worth session is here. Bishop Jack Iker joins Bishop Bob Duncan and John-David Schofield in breaking the vows he took first as a priest and later as a bishop.
From Katie Sherrod:
Resolution for Admission to the Anglican Province of the Southern ConeBE IT RESOLVED, that the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth, meeting in its 26th Annual Convention, does hereby accept the provision made by the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone, and the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth does hereby immediately enter into membership with the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone as a full and equal constituent member of such province, and the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth does hereby accede to the authority of the Constitution and Canons of the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone to the extent such Constitution and Canons are not contrary to Holy Scripture and the teaching of the one holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
Clergy - 73 for, 20 against
Lay - 98 for, 28 against78 percent for, 22 percent against
Letter read from Gregory Venables, primate of the Province of the Southern Cone welcoming "diocese" into the province. (editor's note: The constitution of the province of the Southern Cone lists the countries in which it is authorized to function. The United States is not one of them.)
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UPDATE:
Clergy -- 92 ballots cast with one invalid ballot Lay-- 127 valid ballots castA. Preamble
Clergy - 73 for, 18 against
Lay -- 101 for, 26 againstB. Authority of General Convention
Clergy -- 72 for, 19 against
Lay -- 102 for, 25 againstC. Deputies to General Convention
Clergy --71 for, 19 against
Lay -- 103 for, 24 againstD. Canons
Clergy - 72 for , 19 against
Lay - 102 for, 25 against----------------------------
After almost no debate -- everything has been said too many times already-- the vote was taken. Bp. Iker has said there were to be no demonstrations of any kind, but the room seems subdued, almost weary. But I may be projecting my own emotions here. It is long past time for this to be over.
As we wait for the results of the vote, we are being shown a video about the diocese of Peru. Lots of people wandering around, getting water, quietly chatting. The Rt. Rev. H. William Godfrey, bishop of the diocese, is addressing the convention. He also preached at the opening Eucharist yesterday. He gets another standing ovation at the conclusion of his video and address.
Then we hear the reports of the Canterbury ministries at the University of Texas at Arlington and Texas Christian University, followed by the report of the Corporation of the Diocese. Dr.Frank Salazar. Check the delegates statement for the objections to the actions of the trustees,
Then came the report of the Hispanic ministries of the diocese, Camp Crucis. People are beginning to get a bit restless.
Fr. Jay Atwood just walked in with the results. When the Camp Crucis director is finished we will get the results.
Clergy -- 92 ballots cast with one invalid ballot
Lay-- 127 valid ballots castProp. A -- Preamble
Clergy - 73 for, 18 against
Lay -- 101 for, 26 againstB. Authority of General Convention
Clergy -- 72 for, 19 against
Lay -- 102 for, 25 againstC. Deputies to General Convention
Clergy --71 for, 19 against
Lay -- 103 for, 24 againstD. Canons
Clergy - 72 for , 19 against
Lay - 102 for, 25 against
.
So to absolutely no one's surprise, they all passed by about 80 percent to 20 percent. As the announcement ended, some wag in the gallery turned on music -- "Hit the Road, Jack."Jack was not amused. Nor were the many people who are remaining in the Episcopal Church. We have worked VERY hard to be respectful and collegial, and this one "wit" undid all our work.
Now we are on to come canonical changes. All are adopted by voice vote. Resolution to join the Southern Cone will be voted on by secret ballot. It will be effective at the adjournment of the convention, according to Bp. Iker.
I love math!
Numbers are helpful. They can be obfuscated by millions of public relations money, but they are still the facts.
Peter+
http://santospopsicles.blogspot.com
Posted by Peter Carey![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/nav-commenters.gif)
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November 15, 2008 12:11 PM
This is helpful. I wouldn't care if it were 30% though. People should keep their ordination vows and live within the structure of the Church as it is, rather than as they would have it be. Any bishop who would not rule a proposal to secede out of order should be deposed. There is no reason why such a proposal should even be brought to the floor. It involves not only a breach of ordination vows (on the part of the ordained ministers involved) but a breach of fiduciary responsibility by all Church leaders.
Posted by Bill Carroll![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/nav-commenters.gif)
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November 15, 2008 12:51 PM
The numbers are certainly worth noting, if for no better reason than confirming that the Episcopal Church is not having wholesale defections.
But the better part would be to stop writing about these defectors. We, like MSNBC and other cable networks, keep alive the cause of these neo-baptists by constantly monitoring their every move and acting as if something momentous hangs on what they do.
Numbers, like facts of all sorts, are stubborn things. They are only what they are, and in this case, not very impressive.
We need just let these folks go do whatever they wish and stop giving them so much attention, Without us to react to, their reason for being will soon evaporate, claims of "orthodoxy" notwithstanding. Last I checked, no one was handing out prizes for orthodoxy.They might want to read a little church history.
Leave them alone. Stop reporting on them. Stop acting like what they do is so important. Clearly it is not. Iker, Duncan, et al., will be lucky to get a paragraph in future histories of the American Church.
New Puritans they are not. They have neither the intellectual strength of the Puritans, nor the class of the great Anglo-Catholics. They are, and will be, eminently forgettable.
Posted by Phillip Cato![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/nav-commenters.gif)
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November 15, 2008 2:36 PM
Only 2%! Well, I guess there's nothing to worry about...
I guess I would like to know at percentage we should be concerned about entire diocese separating themselves.
Dennis Bosley.
Posted by dvb![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/nav-commenters.gif)
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November 15, 2008 3:43 PM
As the announcement ended, some wag in the gallery turned on music -- "Hit the Road, Jack." Jack was not amused. Nor were the many people who are remaining in the Episcopal Church. We have worked VERY hard to be respectful and collegial, and this one "wit" undid all our work.
Well, I admit that (in reading the above) I chuckled.
Hopefully, w/ this Unpleasantness behind them, there can be (for faithful Episcopalians, anyway) a reintroduction of humor into Fort Worth?
JC Fisher
Posted by tgflux![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/nav-commenters.gif)
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November 15, 2008 10:58 PM