Imagine a country in which gay bashing gets you no votes

Andrew Sullivan brings news that the Tory party in England is willing to consider "full marriage rights" for gays and lesbians.

The story he cites, which ran in the Telegraph, not only illustrates the difference between British conservatives and their American counterparts, it sheds light on the different landscapes on which progressive members in the Church of England and their counterparts in the Episcopal Church work.

The Church of England is tolerant of gay clergy as long as they don't want to be bishops, and those clergy can already avail themselves of the benefits of civil partnerships. As a result, British progressives sometimes feel less urgency in pressing for full ecclesiastical citizenship for LGBT Christians than do Episcopalians, who live in a less tolerant country. Or, put perhaps more charitably, our friends in England see more wisdom in taking the long view and winning unspoken concessions rather than highly visible public victories.

Posted by Jim Naughton on May 3, 2010 7:40 PM | |
Comments (5)

British progressives sometimes feel less urgency in pressing for full ecclesiastical citizenship for LGBT Christians than do Episcopalians, who live in a less tolerant country.

I don't think you can underestimate the fact that "British progressives" are so much LESS likely to be religious (may well be expressly ANTI-religious), than are US progressives (and British progressives make up a MUCH larger portion of the overall British population, than do US Progressives in the USA).

The demographics are COMPLETELY different: I think that's the telling feature . . . not different tactics.

JC Fisher

Posted by tgflux [TypeKey Profile Page] | May 3, 2010 11:46 PM

No gay bishops? Surely you jest. There's tons of them - Anglo-Catholic to a man, and they like to stay closeted, or at least make maximum use of the blind eye and don't ask, don't tell. And don't for God's sake ask them to support women clergy or bishops.

Posted by Dave Paisley [TypeKey Profile Page] | May 4, 2010 1:49 AM

JC Fisher is right. It is the secular dominance in the UK that has made this. Although I can't really speak for the CoE, it seems to me that the Church in the UK is just as split on the issue. There is there is less Christians over here so we are marginalized by our numbers in any political formation.

I don't know where I stand on this issue, but let me say it is far, far from tolerant in the U.K. A street preacher was approached by a police officer in one of our cities last week and asked [note he wasn't preaching this, he was asked!] if he disagreed with homosexuality. He said he did- he was put into a police cell. Several Conservative candidates who have said they disagree with homosexuality have been barred from standing, radio hosts and newspapers make fools of them constantly, and there is real hatred that such people could have such positions- yes, hatred. The conservative shadow home spokesman said he understood [note: just said understood] why some Christian B+B owners didn't want homosexuals in their B+B and there is constant, constant, calls for him to lose his career because of this once sentence.

So, if you have different views from the prevailing section of society you could be put into a police cell, mocked, stereotyped, hated and possibly lose your job if your colleagues find out. Now I don't know where to stand on this issue exactly, but believe me the U.K. is just as bigoted as before- its just happening the other way round.

[Don - In the future, note our policy requiring first and last name. - ed.]

Posted by don [TypeKey Profile Page] | May 4, 2010 5:35 AM

A street preacher was approached by a police officer in one of our cities last week and asked [note he wasn't preaching this, he was asked!] if he disagreed with homosexuality. He said he did- he was put into a police cell.

Citation, Don? From a reputable source?

Otherwise, not buying it.

JC Fisher

Posted by tgflux [TypeKey Profile Page] | May 4, 2010 9:18 PM

J C Fisher : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7725797/Christian-preacher-arrested-for-saying-gays-were-sinful-has-charges-dropped.html

Can I also ask why you had this default position to be skeptical of what I said, and ask for a reputable source?

Don MacGill

Posted by don [TypeKey Profile Page] | May 16, 2010 9:01 AM

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