Sometimes you just have to say: "WHATEVER!"

I would be very interested in some statistics about the numbers going from RC to Episcopal. My thought is that many more priests and people make that switch and they are a whole lot happier in a place that respects their consciences, nurtures loving relationships regardless of of the gender of your beloved, affirms women to such an extent that our leader is a woman, and (in my experience) really is a kinder, gentler form of catholicism. There is nothing LITE about the Episcopal Church and I have never regretted my decison to join this family of faith.

I was more interested by Fr Lucie-Smith's earlier piece: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/11/28/catholics-are-being-deceived-into-attending-non-catholic-services/

In it, he seems very close to marching into his local High Church Anglican parish, and shaking his Papally-blessed-oiled fist demanding "STOP CALLING YOURSELVES CATHOLIC!"

(Yeah, Father, that'll work!)

A Simple Solution: RCs, call yourselves "Recognized by the Bishop of Rome Church". That's a title you're WELCOME to occupy all by your selves.

Meanwhile, we Anglicans/Episcopalians are going to stay "Catholic".

JC Fisher

[Must.Resist.Non-Christlike.Neener-Neener-Neener! ;-X]

I think the "money quote" is here:

"The above would all be significant but relatively small groups of people. The single largest phalanx of ex-Catholics, as far as I can gather, as those lukewarm Catholics who have been evangelised by Anglicans and have joined a thriving and lively evangelical congregation. My evidence for this is anecdotal, but my guess is that a place like Holy Trinity Brompton contains a significant number of people who were baptised Catholics, but who have now come to Jesus through the Alpha course."

Actually, your description of "lazy, petty,...."etc. IS what a lot of Romans and non-mainline churches think of TEC. The emphasis of the Baptismal Covenant often/usually done when an infant without personal choice or responsibility and lack of emphasis on other definite beliefs--you don't HAVE to believe in the Virgin Birth, or Literal Resurrection or transubstantiation, heaven,hell, atonement, ... etc. to be Episcopalian,but do have a focus on the environment and Millenium goals--make a lot of people think that it is Faith Lite. I dare say that the Fr Cutie business probably didn't help make TEC more popular in Catholic priests' eyes-rewarding scandal like that!

I've been asking for a couple months in various places what a "Real Episcopalian" believes and the answers always focus on NOT being literal, dogmatic, or sure, but being questioning, doubting, open to new things. To embrace a theology that Fr. Lucie-Smith and others would agree wasn't "lite" would make TEC too dogmatic for many in the far left and some who comment and participate here.

Chris Harwood

Insults and ignorance are often par for the course when Anglicans and Catholics start talking about swimming the Tiber in either direction. I think Cathleen Kaveny got it closest to right last year when she published "Long Goodbye: Why Some Devout Catholics are Leaving the Church" in Commonweal last year:

"... From the perspective of these Catholics, doctrine and practice are not developing but withering. But why not stay and fight? First, because they think remaining appears to involve complicity in evil; second, because fighting appears to be futile; and, third, because they don't like what fighting is doing to them. The fight is diminishing their ability to hear the gospel and proclaim that good news. The fight is depriving them of the peace of Christ."...

Steve Schewe

It's arrogance like that of Fr. Lucie-Smith that makes me all the more content in my decision to swim the Thames. I always thought, however, that I would have left in anger. Instead it was the case that my spouse and I simply couldn't find a Roman parish in our area where we felt welcome.

-Cullin R. Schooley

Speaking as one who "swam the other way" ten years ago, I found the article pretty shallow. As a happy Episcopalian, I find the liturgy on this bank of the proverbial river to be more careful, the preaching immeasurably better and the commitment of the community and its members greater. But the heart of the difference, for me, is the experience of membership. As a Roman Catholic, I felt more a member of the auxiliary. Having done vestry service, I have a wholly different appreciation of membership than I ever enjoyed before.

Lou Poulain

Chris,

I think you're on to something that makes lots of Episcopalians very uncomfortable. We're all very good at saying what we don't believe, what one doesn't have to do, what we don't need to agree with. We're also really good at replacing those things with Environmental Sustainability, Milennium Goals etc... Those are VERY fair critiques. If anything angers me in my being an Episcopalian it is a lack of serious theological, doctrinal and devotional MEAT to sink my teeth into. The Roman Catholics have their serious problems but a continued deep engagement with theology and doctine and a rich heritage of devotion and prayer aren't among them. It is hard, sometimes, to put into words this particular frustration with our tradition but I think we could use some of that rigor towards deepening what we're FOR and about as Christians. It troubles me that our theology seems to consist mostly in very broad, vague and unoffensive statements or else undertaking yet another work of eco-theology or deconstruction of the Gospel, rather than doing a serious catechism towards deepening our common faith in Christ...But I'll stop yapping.

Why is it then that more RC clergy by about 20-1 (as I recall from the Red Book) are becoming TEC than the other way around.