Martin, thank you. I hope this is read widely - within the church and without, by those who need to read it and those who need help articulating what they know in their hearts.

Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith and Politics After the Religious Right (Princeton 2008) by E.J.Dionne argues that atheist writers provide the religiously committed a gift to sharpen our commitments in the spirit of rational inquiry. See
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8599.html

Thanks for this reminder, Martin!

This is a good opportunity to note that the speaker on yesterday's "This I Believe" segment on NPR's "All Things Considered" was Sara Miles of St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco. She speaks of her faith, and of coming to faith from being a committed atheist.

As a chaplain I encounter atheists and agnostics with some frequency. Most are happy for the visit, once they are clear that my interest is not in conversion, but in support of one person for another. Yes, they know I represent a community of faith (indeed, in a sense, the broad community of all the faithful of God); but as long as they experience that representation as respect for who they are and concern for their welfare within that respect, they accept the care in the spirit (if not in the Spirit) in which it's intended. They have allowed me to care for them, and to represent, to the best of my ability, the best of Christian compassion.

I also appreciate that it is Christians that give Christians a bad name. Some significant part of my ministry has been in soothing injuries and repairing damage caused in the Church by church people.

Marshall Scott

Martin,

This is a tremendous piece -- thank you! I'm particularly struck by the point you (and Bishop Stendhal) make about conversation and -- indirectly -- conversion. It truly must be a mutual, relational process.

It reminds me of the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman.

I have so often learned more about Christ through interfaith conversation than through internal conversations with other Christians!

Martin,

This is such an important strand in contemporary theological conversation and it's got deep roots s well. Christianity and Buddhism share the old accusation of being atheisms themselves. Much more recently the French Orthodox patristics scholar and theologian Olivier Clement with his appreciation of 'purification by atheism,' French Christian philosopher Simone Weil, and the Greek Orthodox theologian Christos Yannaras ('The Absence and Unknowability of God') have explored this territory.

But meanwhile, at least just possibly, there's atheists and then there are atheists. Chris Hedges new book "I don't Believe in Atheists" takes issue with 'the new atheists' Hitchins, Dawkins, and Harris, arguing that they speak from a grotesque caricature of religion and a re promoting an atheist fundamentalism, as little willing to engage in creative dialogue as any other fundamentalism. There's an interesting reflection on Hedges' critique from a humanist perspective at - http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2008/03/chris-hedges-on-fundamentalism-of-new.html

I've heard from speak and read from his book. He's angry at the experience of a debate with Hitchins whom he found a rhetoric showman unwilling to talk at all seriously. A friend of mine, a post-Darwinian evolutionary biologist has had a similar experience arguing with Dawkins.

I'm glad you're inviting us to take the conversation with atheists seriously. I think it's got the same challenge as conversation with other religions (as you say) and with others who practice and teach Christianity - some people are willing to talk and some people are so committed to their own rightness that they can't or won't talk.

Rabia, Sufi mystic of 8th Century Iraq prayed:
"O Allah! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell,
and if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise.
But if I worship You for Your Own sake, grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty.”

We have much to learn from many tradtions.

Martin,
Thank you for this wonderful and courageous statement. After years of being repeatedly told by Christians that as an atheist I am immoral, foolish, depressed, hateful, conceited, unpatriotic, untrustworthy and downright evil, it is heart warming to hear an influential cleric denounce all those assumptions as the slanders that they are.

I learned about your article at another blog, “The Friendly Atheist” run by Hemant Mehta where I often comment and occasionally write my own articles. www.friendlyatheist.com The largest portion of my time there I spend trying to break through negative stereotypes and to establish positive, respectful dialogues between believers and nonbelievers. I confront my fellow atheists just as readily on their prejudice as I do the misinformed theists who come to visit. When an etiquette faux pas is inadvertently committed, (such as referring to an “avowed atheist”) some of the more touchy ones may be annoyed by it but I try to encourage everyone to patiently explain things.

If you and your readers are actually interested in engaging in the conversations you describe, then “The Friendly Atheist” is a very good place to start. We are real, live atheists and we would be happy to welcome you and your friends to as one of my good friends calls, “our virtual olive garden.”

However I would want to help the process to avoid a stumbling block right at the beginning by warning you that most of us would strongly disagree with the sentiment you attributed to Krister Stendahl that “…the only kind of interfaith dialogue worthy of the name is a conversation between equals that puts both parties at risk of being drawn to adopt the other person’s belief;” It would be helpful to not assume that the atheists you will talk with are simply the mirror images of yourselves. For instance, if one of your readers has as a motive the possibility of converting an atheist to your belief, that atheist is not likely to be harboring a desire to convert him to non-belief. There are a very few, but most of the atheists I know have no interest in causing someone else to “lose their religion.” Yes, we expect to be treated as equals and will afford you the same courtesy. But we have already been through literally thousands of dialogues initiated by believers whose overt or covert purpose was to convert us to their belief. The very best and the very worst have tried time and again, and none of it has ever worked. We have heard every argument for conversion ever dreamed up many times, and we’re very bored with it all. We consider such motivations to be aggression and we are not interested in receiving or delivering such a thing.

If there is any convincing in mind the most common one in atheists is to try to convince theists to stop intruding into five rooms where they don’t belong: someone else’s bedroom, the public schoolroom, the courtroom, the doctor’s office, and the research laboratory. When atheists fight to keep church and state separate, they are fighting for your right to worship as you see fit.

What I and several other atheists would want from such talks is mutual understanding and respect based on correct information, on-going commitments to go back to our respective “camps” to dispel misconceptions in the minds of our fellows, and agreements to work together for mutually beneficial goals.

Martin, I hope that you and your readers take up your challenge to visit and converse with us. There may be awkward moments and misunderstandings along the way, but if we come together with the spirit that you have portrayed, I think we can all benefit. I leave an olive branch at your feet.

Hey,
Thanks for this! I can't tell you how refreshing and encouraging it is to read these words from a Christian. I'm so used to being accused of lying to myself, not wanting to see evidence, or pretending to be atheist because I hate God. And I'll admit, I'm not the biggest person ever to live, and these comments affect me. It's hard not to start feeling the same way back, to start believing that Christians are lying to themselves out of ignorance or desire to believe, or are shutting their minds to the real world out of fear.

Reading words like this helps me respond in kind, as well-- to step back and reflect on the thoughtful Christians who look around their world and see evidence for God.

I wish I were a big enough person to maintain that attitude every day, but sadly, I'm not. I echo others in saying I really hope that your words are widely read, and that your attitude gains influence.

[Commenters are reminded the policy of the Cafe is that you sign your comment with your name, not an alias. - ed. ]

I'm pleased to see this dialogue and thought you might be interested in an agnostic's creed.

An Agnostic’s Creed

I believe there is wisdom and insight to be found in all the world’s religions.

I believe in the sincerity of the devout thinkers and searchers who wrestled with the great questions of life – what life means; where we come from; where we are going; the natures of good and evil – and who, from the depths of their beings and sometimes at the cost of their lives, found wisdom that enriches us all.

I believe that, should there be a just god (divinity) none of these thinkers and searchers will be condemned for their devout, but radically different, investigations, truths, doubts and beliefs because I believe these differences merely reflect the manifold glories of life and of humanity’s ceaseless quest to know.

And finally, I must believe in questioning for I humbly confess that I do not know.

John Gills