Creating a curated site where the multitudes of content can be categorized and shared is one of the resolutions being brought by the Standing Commission on Lifelong Christian Formation. Check out http://buildingthecontinuum.wordpress.com/the-resolutions/building-the-continuum-an-electronic-community/
IMHO, it is fabulous that so much user-generated content is out there. But if it is to be tied in to TEC, then it is only logical that the DFMS budget would fund that process and provide a structure to hold it accountable.

Nurya, I wonder if tying the kind of resources Derek is talking about to the budget of the general church (I can't get used to DFMS. Calling a church by its corporate name does not seem helpful to me.) and therefore making it accountable to someone at the General Church would actually have an inhibiting effect. I am not defending the cuts in the Christian Formation budget (on which I don't have a well formed opinion) but as someone who is involved in the sort of enterprise that Derek is describing, I can tell you that I would not be able to do what I do if I had to report to someone at 815. Nothing against 815. It's just that editorial independence is extremely important.

Personally, I would avoid any tie-in to 815. First, it is obvious to me that they don't "get" the web. All of the major advances in TEC's web presence have come from elsewhere. Second, we would run the risk that the budget would be pulled and the site torn down six months after it started. Their attention span for major outreach projects has been abysmal lately.

I understand the budgetary pressures at 815. I presume everyone there is trying their best for all the right reasons. I just think an effort like this has a greater chance of success if pursued independently.

Paul, I appreciate the way you qualified what you had to say. I would like very much for this conversation to focus on the good work of the sort Derek is describing, and not go after the staff people at 815.

This post strikes a chord with me. In some ways, I think web resources have more power to reach some groups than traditional formation programs ever would. It's certainly been working for me. I had been attracted to the idea of praying the Daily Office for a couple of years now, but it was only after I discovered the Daily Office sites you've linked to above that I successfully took it on as a regular practice. I'm a web native, after all; this simply works better! And I can't be the only one.

And I love the idea of producing some sort of guide to help people navigate these resources. For the last couple of years I've been involved with a project called Clayfire, an ecumenical database of worship resources. Clayfire's gone dark at the moment-- it was sponsored by a publishing house that could no longer afford to support it-- and its cancellation got me thinking of other non-subscription models that might work better. A volunteer crowdsource effort like the one you describe might well have staying power.

Which is to say, if this project gets started and you're looking for volunteers, you can count me in :)

Jim, it might be sufficient to observe that someone's talents lay elsewhere. I must say, in 815's defense that hiring Jake Dell is a sign that things may be turning around. He has been contributing some excellent ideas lately.

Derek, I am intrigued. Count me in. This could be a very useful project.

When I taught religious studies to undergraduates, I always put a caveat on my syllabus regarding internet research (including wikipedia). I warned my students about wide variety of information, much of it false or misleading, that passes for "fact" on the web.

Now that I'm full-time in the parish, I, like so many others, am frustrated about traditional modes of adult formation. I also recognize that most people turn first to the internet for information these days, and figuring out some way of helping them navigate that information should be a high priority.

I am reminded almost every Sunday that people--newcomers as well as longtime members--want help in understanding what they're reading and in figuring out what to read. The crucial issue though, is not just providing the guidance, but creating the sort of community that is created around the study of the Bible or a book at a shared table.

The church should be a community of reading, gathered around scripture and sacrament, and I'm not sure we're close to figuring out what that might look like in cyberspace.

Derek: This is a fascinating proposal and I hope to see it develop!

I love stuff like this, as you know. Will be glad to help, if I can.

Great post, Derek!

I would add to the cast of characters, an Anglican chaplain, at a New Zealand boarding school for boys, who blogs and tweets on things liturgical and ecclesial http://liturgy.co.nz/

In the web 2.0 world, it's publish first, edit later, all strung out longitudinally. The results are as you describe.

The process of collection, collation and categorization for retrieval and review, while maintaining content integrity, is done for me by search engines.

I have found all the content and community that you described, and more, see supra, via search engines, and subsequently following links.

A question for consideration is, are search engines generally unbiased and giving me what I seek and intend by my search terms? If not, then there needs to be some other mechanism, and then in that case opensource/crowdsource FTW!

This strikes me as the very sort of thing that librarians are trained to do. And there are librarians at our seminaries. Many of them w/ theological training as well as their MLIS. Perhaps a shout-out to the Episcopal/Anglican sub-group of the American Theological Library Association could turn up one or more people who are both committed to supporting and furthering the pastoral ministry of the Church and also trained in digital information-seeking and curation, and teaching information literacy. And teaching future pastors/priests/lay professionals about all of that. Andrew Kadel of GTS is currently the chair of the Anglican/Episcopal section of ATLA.

(The Rev.) Gillian Barr
Norfolk, VA
onetime member of ATLA

Some of us have already been doing some parts of this for quite awhile. Go to our website (www.LeaderResources.org) and click on the Adult section -- you'll find about 50 different curricular programs (plus books in the book section) that individuals, congregations and dioceses have developed -- often by taking ideas from those blogs or by people who connected with each other online. What we try to do is put those ideas in a format that can be used in multiple contexts and in multiple ways, organized by topics. We've had teams of people across the US and beyond who create, edit and develop what we call "evolutionary resources" -- because they are electronic so can be updated and refined at any time. We watch blogs and patterns that emerge online and when it looks interesting, encourage people to convert it into something that has more organization to it.

A group of us are also planning an online "sandbox" where people can write, post works-in-progress, dialogue, etc....out of which might emerge some more organized things like books, courses, etc. So if someone wants to play in our sandbox, let me know. We're open to all kinds of interesting things, because we don't have deal with church politics -- although I take my responsibility as a priest seriously so there is some "vetting" that occurs. But, e.g., our newest items include Kevin Thew Forrester's collects, Eucharistic prayers, baptismal liturgy (to challenge our liturgical thinking) and his companion book on the theology/philosophy that underlies it. And our latest book is "Reiki and Christian Healing." Those are resources that have grown out of long-term dialogues between people in many contexts.

Oh yes....and I guess I'd fit into your motley crew, Derek. I started LeaderResources after the Adult Education office at 815 was eliminated in the mid-90's -- and my job as the Adult Ed Coodinator with it -- so I suddenly was free to do it "out there" and it is in many ways, faster, easier and cheaper to do that "out here." I the last 15 years we've helped people around the church offer about 100 programs they've created for children, youth and adult education....all delivered electronically. So here's a platform that already exists and is easy to expand if others want to build on it.

Derek - I think your commentary and suggestions are spot-on (especially the need to categorizing resources - I'm a former database designer, so I'm with you)... and I love the Margaret Mead quote.

This year our parish kicked off a year long Bible reading program based on the book 'Meet the Bible' (Philip Yancey & Deborah Quinn). There wasn't interest/commitment in a regular Sunday morning traditional Bible study to discuss the readings, but we did develop a quiet but committed following on our blog and Facebook page (I keep track of the stats). The reading schedule is published in advance and a broad demographic of parishioners are reading along. I also Tweet and text the daily reading every morning to a select group.

The biggest challenge for me as a lay person (and what keeps others from fully participating with their own commentary) is that while I have opinions (Lord knows, I have opinions), I do not have a theological background. As I spout off on yet another topic, always in the back of my mind is that I will say something either blatantly wrong, supremely misguided or somehow unEpiscopalian dogmatically. As a lay employee (therefore representative of my church) it always makes me nervous. Not that it stops me (hah!), but, it's a consideration.

If there is any catalog, you are free to add
http://bible365atstpauls.wordpress.com/ or Bible 365 at St Pauls on Facebook.

Lisa Brown

Derek,

We've engaged with boken (Derek you know, I think, bit for other readers, that's wooden swords) from time to time. It seems to me that argument and recovering a more rabbinic sense of discovering God in and through our argument is a significant part of what you're talking about here. It's what takes 'information technology' a big step toward actual Formation. But I also imagine you'd want to add that formation happens face to face, and what I'd suggest is that the forming of a Christly mind and common mind in Christ can happen significantly through on-line reading, listening, learning, conversation and argument, but that there's a forming of heart and body (actually another aspect of mind) that happens when church brings sisters and brothers in Christ together - particularly in liturgy, particularly in singing and common silence, and also significantly in working side by side. I like what you're pointing to here a lot and recognize it. And I don't think the internet's power and opportunity serves us fully if we make on-line faith practice or purely cognitive engagement the sum of formation (which is why, I think the relationality that you're alluding to makes on-line engagement more relational than just 'thinking about.'

I agree with Donald about online resources and face-to-face interactions. I'm currently heading up Education & Formation (yoked into a cluster w/ Outreach) at my church and have tried to emphasize the "head, heart, and hands" aspects of Christian formation. Online resources are very good for the head part but are fairly limited with the heart and especially the hands. While there can be (sometimes very fruitful) interaction online, we also need to face-to-face part, particularly since we can only be church in community. (Physical community, of course, being the primary form of it.)

Another part of my philosophy with education is that we need to teach people where they can go to find information but then also the kinds of critical response they need to bring to that information. Additionally, we need to have church-related fora where we can come together and process what we've learned and engage in additional questions, especially the "So what?" ones.

Right on, Derek et al. I would like to point out some things that strike me as a Latino:

Years ago I asked a Vestry what they were interested in learning more about. They stared at me blankly, until finally one had the courage to say, "What do we have to learn anything at all? Doesn´t God love us just as we are?" I was stunned. My family had sacrificed greatly to give me the best education they could find, and twelve years of Jesuit education, two masters and a doctorate in a country with amazing educational opportunities had not prepared me for this. I had always assumed, being naturally curious and a learner, that learning was an uncontestable good, and that its opposite, ignorance, is a bad thing. Since money seems important in these parts, let me just say that the price --not counting scholarships and grants, was $86,000.

Then I began to notice the parlous state of education in the US, and I wonder if there isn´t something profoundly deep-seated in our disregard for learning: I wonder if many people consider that, being a democracy, everyone is fine just as they are, and self-impovement is something of an unnecessary luxury, --maybe even elitist. If this is true, --and I´m only putting it out as a possibility-- then our discourse about education and learning needs to change profoundly.

In the meantime, there are some other ancillary phenomena in our common life as a church that support this pseudo-democratic disregard for learning:

1. Culturally, we see religion as a competitor to science AND/OR as a matter of personal feelings. (How we can do both at the same time is a mystery to me, since science tries to prescind from subjectivity, and symbolic actions revel in it).

2. We tend to think of congregations as centers for pastoral care (often described in pseudo-therapeutic terms) and not as centers of learning, like synagogues. Most clergy see themselves, in my experience, more as pastors than teachers.

3. What little learning takes place in parishes and missions is generally haphazard --a few people gathered to listen to someone´s interesting (or not) presentation in a Sunday "forum."

4. There is very little thought by parish leadership to the question, "How might we help God make Christians?" for the accepted notion seems to be that you´re born a christian, (meaning here "a good person") --you just have to follow your natural instincts.

5. We have failed miserably at connecting learning to mission (in part because we have left mission to the vagaries of individual initiative) --so I think Lee Ann´s experiment might well be right on target. Certainly it points to very good pedagogy: Do first, then reflect about it, then get any additional information you need.

I rue the budget cuts in formation. I was also shocked when years ago Linda Grenz was let go from 815 and formation was left unfunded. I cannot understand a church that does not take formation seriously any more than I can understand a country that does not take education seriously. 815 might answer something like "formation is best left to the local diocese or parish." OH YES? THEY are going to develop programs and methods? Please. I think this is just another version of "people naturally know what they need to know." --an abdication of leadership. The Anglican Divines are spinning... Formation is not adiaphora.

I am wondering if there can 't be some national support for these networks - a place on the internet where people would naturally go for information. A portal for Episcopal education resources -- a group of people who love this stuff could serve as a board to make sure the info is up to date and of an Anglican ethos (or at least note that it is not). To me that would be a good use of national moneys but keep things network centric - which is THE organizational principal of the 21st Century

I’ve been reading these comments all day and am going to take the plunge and add my responses. Going back to Derek’s original post, I’m in mostly total agreement. The state of adult formation in our Episcopal Church is in a sorry state and has been for a number of years. There are some great initiatives going on from all levels of the church – but the average lay person (and perhaps clergy too) do not know about them. Our congregations in general (even in this cyber-connected world) are left to fend for themselves and re-invent the wheel because they have not received the information and training that will help them grow in 21st century way.

No. It’s not my momma’s Sunday School, and it is not what mine was either (being a baby boomer).

As a member of the Standing Commission on Lifelong Christian Formation and Education I can report that as a hopefully representative body of our church (from a variety of levels and experiences), we see the disconnect. We have seen the drastic cuts across all levels of our church in education – from Church School for children to seminary education support. I suggest reading “Legacies, Lessons and Lifelines,” a document written over four years ago that is very pertinent to where we are today. http://naeced.org/downloads/peall/legacies_lessons_and_lifelines.pdf

The trouble is – we have plenty of volunteers – but they don’t have the time. Momma and Daddy are both holding down jobs now, and then some. And they are spiritually hungry too. Just this week a member of my congregation asked me for a book that I had posted about on Facebook entitled “What Episcopalians Believe.” He’s a regular worshipper at my church, but the little adult formation we offer doesn’t answer his questions.

Our church needs a hub to help with all these links and connections. It needs an infrastructure (with a live human) to help discern what is good and what is garbage that is floating out there on the internet that so many of our churches tap into because it’s free and easy. That doesn’t mean it is theologically compatible to our Episcopal ethos.

Some would say Forma (once known as NAECED) is now providing that grassroots link. But the Forma leadership serve as volunteers to the organization. Its finances rely on membership dues – from many of those same people who have lost their jobs as diocesan or congregational staff.

The Standing Commission has a resolution, of which we’ve entitled, “Building the Continuum.” It proposes an electronic community that is hosted by The Episcopal Church. And yes, it is asking for funding to make it happen. Read all about it here: http://buildingthecontinuum.wordpress.com/the-resolutions/building-the-continuum-an-electronic-community/

And while you’re at it, check around the site on the other resolutions and some feedback formation folks are weighing in on as we grow close to General Convention.

Thanks for listening,
Sharon Ely Pearson

To me, it is a both/and/and. I work for a parachurch faith formation organization. We have 1) face-to-face events 2) printed resources 3) online content.

From my experience the level of transformation is more profound the further we get from the digital world, though formation can happen online, too. The face-to-face meetings are the most helpful because we are focusing our attention on one thing--assuming we are not messing with our iPhones or Blackberries. In a large or small group meeting we cannot hide form God or one another by checking out the breaking news on cnn.com. Then there comes printed resources, which, again, help us to focus on the topic at hand much more intently than in the online world. These can be used by individuals and small groups, of course. And finally online resources, which do have an effect when we are disciplined in their use, but it seems to me the electronic world actually rewards distraction--the more tabs open on the browser the better.

All that put, I think what Mr. Olsen describes above, and especially the part about blogging as a formational practice, is great. And at the same time it is likely the fruit of years and years of interacting in, most of all, face-to-face settings and gaining from a lot of reading of books. I think the web can be a wonderful resource for people to find communities and substantial idea resources like book and curricula--having it on a Kindle is OK :)--but if we move to a world where online learning is the preferred method for Christian formation then my guess is we are capitulating too much to cultural preferences, giving ourselves what we want rather than what we need. So let's put ourselves in a position to do it all: both/and/and, face-to-face/books/online.

I agree with Lyle, for sure; it's important that all sorts of means for formation be available. And the Church Year itself, and the liturgical observance of it is, in my opinion, the most formative and important thing of all. In fact, I think it's our very most important offering to the world, and one we should focus on with high energy.

But, I can say from the point of view of a relative newcomer to the church: I've learned an awful lot online - far more than what any one parish or group of people could be expected to provide. The reason is that I've listened to all sorts of debates about various issues, and have been able to follow - rather easily too - any thread of a topic I found interesting (and find other debates and discussions about that!). The online world is alive - which is why maybe people are checking their phones every 10 minutes.

Now, I'm a curious sort, and the spiritual life is highly interesting to me, so that explains part of it. Part of it was wanting to know more about the church itself, and about what sort of life this was. But finding people online to talk things over with has been really, really important, too - in a like-hearts sort of way.

(Actually, maybe the key here is to take the line that Paul and the early Christians did: acknowledge and respect that people are curious, proclaim the Known God, and replace CNN with our content (as images of Unknown and other gods were replaced with those of Christ early on) ;-) )

(In fact, perhaps online stuff can be a sort of stand-in - a replacement for religious culture that has been part and parcel of life for thousands of years but is no longer.

Maybe it can help people absorb information that in other times would have been "in the air" and everywhere, but just isn't there anymore.

AND, we can read the Dead Sea Scrolls online, too!

Win-win!)

I agree with many of Mr. SmithGraybeal's points, but I don't think it is completely accurate. The point about having tabs open on a browser during a class session, for example, strikes me as a bit off the wall. Has no one ever taken one's notebook or even church bulletin and started a grocery or to-do list when possibly taking notes on the presentation might be more in order? Or had one or more books open during a session in order to refer to one or another during the discussion? Can I hide from God any more surely sitting in front of a computer screen with a group participating in a theological reflection via a virtual chat room or Skype than I can sitting in a group of people?

I craved the kind of educational opportunity offered by EfM, but it did not exist in my parish and driving at night further than a few miles in order to participate in the class was out of the question. What I found was EfM online, and with it not just the educational information but an interactive and active community where each member benefits from every other member. If I cannot see their faces across a table, I can clearly see their words and have time to respond to those words even if several others speak in the interim between the two. When they need prayer (or I do), the whole group responds with support just as any face-to-face group would. As we work in a visual world, we can pay more attention to what someone is saying without distraction. Did I miss something they said? I can go back and see what it was so that I can respond appropriately and not just shoot from the hip with a response that reflects what I think I heard them say. I think that is one thing that woul benefit a lot of groups who are so busy talking over one another that often the good thoughts and ideas get lost in a forest of verbiage that does not really advance the conversation.

Ideally I agree that formation should balance online, books and real vs. virtual community meetings, but that is simply not attainable for many. I don't believe that it is catering to culture to recognize the increasing power of the internet and virtual communities such as EfM online. Many colleges and universities are doing more and more online courses which benefits all of us by offering educational opportunities to people who might not otherwise be able to obtain it. Does it make the education they receive any less valuable and valued because they did it online? No, I don't believe it does. While I would certainly seek out a spiritual director with whom I could meet periodically if I felt the need to do so, I will also defend the benefit of online education and formative opportunities when the alternative is no opportunity at all.

Linda Ryan

I think a lot of lay people aren't used to taking on leadership positions in adult education--and then many younger people, including myself at times, get filled with doubts: "I'm no expert in that...", "I'm too young to lead a group like this...", "I don't know where to start", "I don't have time to invest in this..."

We need to create spaces where people feel welcome to contribute. Sometimes that might be as simple as announcing that formation is open for all to contribute their perspectives. Other times, leadership might need to look for "seeds" who can grow once they've received some encouragement.

The diversity and variety in the Church is what makes it such an amazing and vibrant community, but it can also work against us sometimes when creating "a sandbox" for Episcopalians to play in. We are fragmented and diffused, which makes it difficult to aggregate content in a critical mass and also difficult to address the needs of TEC's many constituencies. Linda, what a wonderful site--will definitely check it out!

Susan

Susan please sign your full name next time
.ed

I would like to echo some of what Linda Ryan said with regards to Mr. SmithGraybeal's points in a slightly different way.

I, too, could not do face-to-face EfM because of my call schedule (which requires me to be within 30 min. response time of the hospital) vs. the nearest group being 90 miles away. As it was, I think it's a trade where neither side can be quantified. I admit I would like that face-to-face interaction but I would have also been in a class of people all from central MO. My online class has had people in all four time zones and Bahrain. I would not have gotten that level of depth of classmates in the face-to-face version, and, in rural MO, it's nice to escape an insular, parochial environment now and then.

I will also add my social netowrking has actually ADDED to my "live sociability." For three years now, I have taken "Facebook pilgrimages," where I have met over a dozen people I only previously knew from Facebook. Some people might find that a little scary, but I find that the same technology that creates those adventures has a safety aspect to it--I Facebook my journey and people are watching!

Finally, I don't think the worry about distraction ("all those open tabs") is as fearful as we sometimes think. In the medieval pewless church, during the sermon, people were milling around, talking to their friends, chasing animals in and out of church, conducting business, and drawing graffiti on the walls. I don't see the annoying texter any different than I see the person knitting or crocheting in the pews, or the person drawing on the bulletin during the sermon. I contend it's not the technology, it's the choices we make with it. Sure, we all know the distractions are there--but people also vote with their feet (or their smartphone) when they are bored with what is happening around them.

What about the Faith Formation network approach?
I'm interested in this in many ways and have been trying to build a formation task force. I would be interested in hearing what others feel about the Faith Formation Network approach

CFleader- PLEASE sign your first and last name when commenting - thanks ~ed.